Monday, December 2, 2019
Ritaruby
After the Feds raided Michel Cohen's apartment, office and hotel room they charged him with multiple crimes and apparently have recordings which include conversations with Trump. There is also talk that Cohen does not even have a license to practice law. Trump is fuming. Your thoughts?
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droberts
Hey Rita,

So far from what I could find Cohen hasn't been charged with anything yet, he's still under investigation for bank fraud, campaign finance violation and wire fraud. I guess Trump is his only client, which is weird as the feds said he had no email messages with Trump. So attorney client privilege with trump wouldnt exist at least for the emails. Cohens attorney keeps saying the raid was inappropriate and unnecessary, but the raid really had nothing to do with Muellers investigation it was referred to the New York feds by Rosenstein because it wasn't under Muellers scope. Guess Cohens been under investigation for months. 

Hope he can't weasel his way out of this, but his attorney has to look like he's trying I guess. If the recordings have trump, that would probably fall under attorney client privilege, unless trump is talking about/planning something illegal, then there's an exception to it.

Its like Cohen made himself Trumps protector and has screwed himself doing it. It'll be all over for him if he's practicing law without a license.
"Where law ends tyranny begins"  John Locke
Locke defines tyranny as "the exercise of power beyond right." A just leader is bound by the laws of the legislative and works for the people, whereas a tyrant breaks the laws and acts on his own behalf

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men (and women) to do nothing."  Edmund Burke
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Ritaruby
Hi droberts, I am pretty sure I heard that Cohen was actually charged...and with multiple things...but sorry I can not now find that...heard it on air on MSNBC...I read about the rest and agree with your assessment of everything...in particular that - as others also think - Cohen was Trump's "fixer" and as soon as Cohen got into real hot water and got caught Trump set him up as the "fall guy." I hope he flips on Trump...the Feds will probably give him a choice to do so or spend the rest of his life in jail and not see his family and friends...if he even has those...of course they now have enough on him even if he doesn't flip but I'd love to see him turn on Trump and spill more...same with Manafort who's been resisting flipping. Karma...hopefully soon.
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Ballhawk
Ritaruby my thought was the same as yours, that maybe they will flip Cohen (a deal to give  him a lighter sentence in exchange for his co-operation in providing testimony against his boss).  Surely Cohen has much knowledge about the doings of Trump and Trump associates.  Apart from that question, they seem to be getting affirmation that Cohen traveled to Prague to meet Russians prior to the election, in other words collusion on Trump's behalf, as was reported in the Steele Dossier. 
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droberts
I would think they would charge him him after fully evaluating all possible evidence, which they haven't done from the raid since Cohens attorney's filed to have it blocked.

See this Lawfare article. It shows his attorneys documents and then the governments response. Both are pretty long, many pages, I'm still reading but interesting.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/documents-michael-cohen-litigation
"Where law ends tyranny begins"  John Locke
Locke defines tyranny as "the exercise of power beyond right." A just leader is bound by the laws of the legislative and works for the people, whereas a tyrant breaks the laws and acts on his own behalf

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men (and women) to do nothing."  Edmund Burke
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dfcloud
Thanks for the link Donna, I'm going to have to spend some time there. I've been checking my email and news feeds since I got up this morning and apparently captain marmalade is STILL calling this search a "witch hunt". He seems to like that term for anything that will probably land his orange ass in jail. For those not "in the know" there's this thing called "PROBABLE CAUSE". Something authorities MUST have to obtain a search warrant. 
Yes, my major in college was criminology/psychology.

“To obtain a search warrant, prosecutors must convince a federal judge that agents are likely to discover evidence of criminal activity.”  To obtain a search warrant, police must show probable cause that a crime was committed and that items connected to the crime are likely to be found in the place specified by the warrant.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/probable_cause

"Probable cause" generally refers to the requirement in criminal law that police have adequate reason to arrest someone, conduct a search, or seize property relating to an alleged crime.

The probable cause requirement comes from the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which states that:    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be searched."

As seen in those words, in order for a court to issue a warrant -- for someone's arrest, or to search or seize property -- there must be "probable cause."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_41

Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure › TITLE VIII. SUPPLEMENTARY AND SPECIAL PROCEEDINGS › Rule 41. Search and Seizure

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Ballhawk

Thanks to dfcloud for good information on probable cause and the Constitutional basis for it.  The Fed prosecutor in NY State obviously made a valid case for probable cause to justify raiding Cohen.  It is ridiculous to call the Mueller investigation a "witch hunt" because Mueller has already gotten 5 guilty pleas and 22 indictments.  Of course we know the Right Wing including Trump supporters will say anything at all, often with no factual or legal basis whatsoever.  Many of them are so clueless that they believe their own BS. 

 

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Ritaruby
Agreed Ballhawk and yes, thanks you dfcloud.
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Ritaruby
Thanks again dfcloud...very informative and great links.
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Ritaruby
Again, droberts, thanks for the link...I had thought they actually charged Cohen but apparently I am wrong.
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Ritaruby
Agreed Ballhawk about hoping Michael Cohen will flip...though more and more about that raid is coming out every day. I still wish both he and Manafort would flip, though MSNBC says Mueller is composing reports on 4-5 counts of obstruction of justice against Trump-now Trump won't interview with him-and that is separate from the collusion issue which may come further to the forefront with this raid. They say Trump is more upset by the Michael Cohen raid than the Mueller investigation...we'll see what happens when Trump's "fixer" is asked to "spill the beans" or get "fixed" himself...as is said when it comes to your family and friends with these guys loyalty can go right out the window....and I wonder what Cohen was getting in return for the "I'd take a bullet for Donald Trump" stuff?
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droberts
I hope the Feds neuter both of them!!!
"Where law ends tyranny begins"  John Locke
Locke defines tyranny as "the exercise of power beyond right." A just leader is bound by the laws of the legislative and works for the people, whereas a tyrant breaks the laws and acts on his own behalf

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men (and women) to do nothing."  Edmund Burke
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Ritaruby
Me too droberts! And then I hope the go on to Putin and all of the allies Trump has especially those who helped him get elected! We can say neuter, right Chris? LOL
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