Monday, December 2, 2019
Ritaruby
OK I know this is in the past, but can someone please explain to me the rationale of those voting Obama in for 2 terms than voting Trump in? Please. I just can't understand it. Did they consider Hillary so revolting (I don't believe she is or was!) that they thought Trump a better choice? Were they, like the Trump followers and the prior Obama voters "hungry for change?" I just don't understand...if you have a theory, please post it. I have just been so baffled by this.
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droberts
Rita, the ones I knew that voted for the Orange Baboon, did so IMO, because they fell for his BS.  They were feeling desperate about Healthcare affordability because rates were going up even in the ACA and also because Hillary made some stupid choices which led these people to believe everything Trump said about her. Facts or no facts. People do desperate things when they are desperate. Wonder how they're  liking their healthcare choices for next year and some, their Medicare cuts? I only have talked some with one recently and she regrets voting for Dicktator-n-chief  now. Said she didn't know he would be this way.
"Where law ends tyranny begins"  John Locke
Locke defines tyranny as "the exercise of power beyond right." A just leader is bound by the laws of the legislative and works for the people, whereas a tyrant breaks the laws and acts on his own behalf

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men (and women) to do nothing."  Edmund Burke
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Ballhawk
Good question.  Here are a few possible answers.  (1) African-American turnout of voters was 4.7% lower when Hillary was the Dem candidate than when Obama was the candidate in 2012, meaning they were motivated a bit more by a black candidate than a while female candidate, (2) Obama's campaign, by numerous accounts, was a modal of efficiency and astute strategy, while maybe Hillary's staff was not quite that good, (3) the Russians interfered in the 2016 against Hillary Clinton, as affirmed by our intel community and the Senate Committee, whereas there was apparently no such interference against Obama in 2012, (4) Hillary has been victim for many years of smears by the right wing, mostly false accusations and innuendo, but the "I don't trust Hillary" theme was prevalent, (5) Obama had to endure racist smears, such as "birther" lies, but he seemed to survive that better than Hillary's experiences enduring overt misogyny that worked against her, (6) Hillary worked hard in her campaign and her competence and articulation of issues was evident to intelligent voters, but Obama had an overriding charisma, an overriding way of expressing humanistic ideals that would have been hard for anybody to match, (7) Hillary did cast doubt upon herself by using an email server located in their home in NY State rather than the State Department system, and she was criticized for that by the Inspector General of the US State Department; she also failed to submit back to the government a portion of her correspondence in accordance with policy, again criticized by the Inspector General, while Obama did not have such an issue when he ran for President, (8) Obama did not have an event just prior to the election comparable to the sudden re-opening of the email issue by the FBI in the days just before the 2016 election. and that surely did cost Hillary some votes.  
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Ritaruby
droberts, thanks for your insight here. I think you touched on a key point...desperation-with those who voted for Trump...fortunately, the person you mention you spoke with is sorry now. That's a start.
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Ritaruby
Very insightful, Ballhawk, your post here about why people voted for Obama then for Trump. Did you read droberts's post too...because I think as mentioned she touched on a key issue here. In my mind, it just seems like such a radical switch...from a highly liberal minority candidate who is respectful to a loud mouth trash talking creep. I can understand he made all these promises but still...I don't think this will ever make sense to me. I think as droberts mentioned desperation was key, and also again wanting someone who they thought would "shake up the traditional Washington "elite establishment" ..well, they sure got that. To say Agent Orange shook up the establishment is an understatement and sorry-WHICH promise he made during his campaign did he make good on? I have not seen a better healthcare plan than the ACA under Trump...he simply "gutted" most of it and is now trying to gut the rest of it...they make noises about making "a better plan" but I am not betting that will happen. Still don't understand but I guess people can ignore a lot when desperate and in the face of smears and lies and "lock her up" chants about the other candidate (by Trump). I do agree Ballhawk in that I think Obama had/has a charisma that is tough to match and no doubt he had better people on his campaign-not saying everyone but some-than she did. She made mistakes, it's true, but look at what we got instead of the so called " crooked Hillary." I can rest knowing I cast among the popular vote and against Trump.....that's unfortunately the only part I can easily rest about. Thanks to you both for your insight here. Very interesting and helpful.
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Ballhawk
I think there are more people with racist instincts than we realize.  Trump gave them a voice.  Also, there was a sense among many people that life was not giving them a fair shake, that minorities were getting benefits and attention that was disproportional.  When asked why they voted for Trump some said they hated "political correctness" and Trump represented to them a disdain for political correctness.  He was vulgar and did not give a damn who cared.  Others, and here's another evidence of their insecurity and alienation, said they resented "elites" looking down on them.  To them Trump was the antithesis to the elites running everything, the guy who thumbed his nose at protocol who talked straight like a regular guy, not some educated elite.  They said they liked the way he talked.  The swaggering of Trump appealed to their resentment about their sense of being unfairly deprived in their own lives by circumstances.  Of course all this says more about their own insecurities than about the "elites," whoever they are.  Hillary was brainy, confident woman while Trump was coarse and irreverent.  People with less education sensed that Hillary Clinton was intellectually superior to them, so it was easier for them to identify with the male who had supposedly made it big in business and whose language was more like theirs than was Hillary's language.  Misogyny was also a factor of course.  
I asked one guy why he voted for Donald Trump, and his answer was "I like the way he talks."
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Ballhawk
The question of why people voted for Obama and then for Trump assumes that an identifiable segment of the electorate did that.  I think the question itself is flawed.  While Obama won the poplar votes and electoral college by substantial margins, Trump actually lost the popular vote by 2.9 million votes.  Maybe some people voted for Trump that did not vote at all in 2012.  In 2016 there was a 55.4% turnout of eligible voters in the US, meaning millions of eligible voters did not show up to vote.  Lethargy is a factor in our elections.  Indifference.  Among those who do vote there are some who are poorly informed about issues and some who are single issue voters.  Generally speaking Hillary did better among college graduates, minorities, young people, somewhat better among women.  Trump did a bit better among male voters, especially white male voters, and especially among old white male voters; and he did well with people of both sexes who had never attended college or only attended for a while without graduating.  
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Ritaruby
Thank you for this insight Ballhawk.
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Ritaruby
Your last post was especially insightful and interesting Ballhawk. Thanks. I think there is a lot of "closet racism" in America unfortunately and as Tony Schwartz who co-wrote the Art of The Deal said, and recently Tom Arnold, Trump "ignites" the fear and rage inside of people. This apparently plays to inner emotional needs which may be unmet, so they say - except, of course among those of us with an ounce of sanity and who are not as angry inside. I can understand electing someone who appears to be "an establishment rebel" and promises change..but those who say Trump is not "one of the Washington elites" must be blind to the fact that poor and/or working class people elected a BILLIONAIRE....THINK NOW- WHY WOULD A BILLIONAIRE WHO HAS NEVER WALKED A DAY IN YOUR SHOES AND WHO IS SCREAMING "LOCK HER UP" KEEP PROMISES TO YOU? Sorry...off on my soapbox. Thankfully, I do not have that kind of rage, hatred or anger inside me - except, to be frank - against Trump, his supporters and his administration...and I have met very many abusive people in my life, I'll just say that. PEOPLE WITH BRAINS DID NOT VOTE FOR TRUMP IN MY OPINION. SORRY NOT SORRY-THAT'S WHAT I BELIEVE. Same for those who sat home and did not vote cause they liked neither candidate. That's their right-but partially thanks to them we are where we are now also-my opinion.
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